I’m listening thinking about Michael Shermer’s “Why People Believe Weird Things” and smart people are better at joining the wrong dots together. Incredibly frustrating confirmation bias. The big problem is millions of people are going to defer to her “authority”
Well that was interesting. She had me on the first 20 minutes...then it was crazy town. I think Josh did a good job pushing back, at the end basically saying, Could it be that you're a total hack, have no historical knowledge or background and you're swimming in a soup of ignorance and conspiracy? Answer: Yes. I think she's articulate, smart and clueless. (And captured in the worst way.)
Yes, prevaccine there was only around 600 Tetanus cases a year, but there was a whopping 85% death rate. Scary. Vaccines have reduced cases to 41 and death rate to 10%. Kind of worth doing, yes?
Looking down the table most vaccine-preventable diseases have been eradicated to 0 or are down 99-100%. Also kind of worth doing.
Isn't the underlying question of whether its is the role of government to force people, as though they are children, or it is their role to inform the populace and allow them to decide for themselves?
Yes, that always works out well, doesn’t it? The government has informed the populace thoroughly of the dangers of smoking and yet people still smoke themselves to an early grave.
Maybe we should just ‘suggest’ it is a good idea to: wear a helmet on a bike, wear a seatbelt, stop at traffic lights, don’t drive drunk. Let people decide for themselves.
I climb and I know most young people these days decide NOT to wear a helmet. One could see it as natural selection, I suppose.
I guarantee at the time when people watched their children die or be maimed with these horrible diseases they didn’t winge and moan about having to vaccinate their remaining children with the new miracle drugs from ‘the government’.
Now, from our place of relative comfort, created by vaccinations, why do we have to invent victimhood instead of just saying ‘thanks’.
And, no, I don’t think you can rely on the populace to make the decision for themselves, because, like children, they listen to the loudest voices, like Candace, and don’t do proper research.
The populace IS already well informed. We have the knowledge of the entire planet at our fingertips. Information is easy to find. You just need to curate it. I did some research yesterday and this was a pretty good summary of what I found:
This was an interesting listen. The most striking thing to me was that she several times raised issues with how people are being "fed a narrative" through public schooling and mainstream media, only to state at the end that it is her "baseline assumption that the bible got it right". Hard to beat religion when it comes to spoon feeding you a narrative.
Thanks for doing this. I disagree with others and thought the pushback was enough. And you let her have the rope to hang herself.
I heard a lot of secondary sources about how she was crazy, but after listening I can confirm it. Lots of "Beautiful Mind" vibes here; the conspiracies are everywhere.
My assumption is that most of us listening to this podcast probably aren’t actually avid listeners to hers and, therefore, are precisely the crowd who could stand to hear what she has to say. I can only speak for myself but I avoid her content like the plague and, therefore, have heard very little “from the horse’s mouth” and more from the horse-haters’ mouths. This was a fascinating conversation and I thought Josh walked the line brilliantly during it.
I can only speak for myself, but I have heard plenty directly from Candace over the past several years. Not every person needs to be heard from endlessly. I think Sam Harris takes an intelligent stance on this.
You’re listening to a show called Uncomfortable Conversations, that comment is beneath the show. She is a strong, opinionated voice with well thought out content worth listening too and considering. And some stuff that gives me the same feeling I get when Love Island comes on TV and I need to leave the room.
I wouldn't describe Candace Owens' opinions as "well thought out". She doesn't live in reality. Hardly going to be a productive conversation with someone that exists in such a epistemological parallel universe.
As a teacher, it will never cease to infuriate me how people with extreme views make broad claims about what is being taught in classrooms, usually with implicit (if not explicit) criticism of public education. They are invariably wrong. The things she was claiming are taught about “toxic masculinity” aren’t on any syllabus, and she had a very distorted understanding of what that term even meant.
Great interview, thanks. Just right for someone like me who has never heard her talk or read her views. She seems to be a typical Bible-based conspiratorial anomaly hunter, but with a more fluent patois than most. Also Josh, thanks for letting her finish her answers. In recent interviews you have been jumping in too soon. Busy life, kids, etc.? All is forgiven.
Above average levels of hysteria in the comments today.
I have to say, as much as i have little time for lightweight thinkers like Candace Owen, i dislike the ‘we need to stop platforming these people’ types so much more.
I mean, bottom line, who TF cares if Bridgette Macron used to be a man?(she didn’t). That Obama may be bisexual? (reads as open minded and curious to me, but whatever).
What on earth does it matter, to anyone but themselves?
Why do you need to invent this shit to be so concerned about?
If bombs were falling on you or lions were attacking you, I don’t think you would give a moment’s thought to the gender/sexuality of anyone, and would consider people who were dwelling on such things as completely bonkers.
As someone who has only heard of her through third parties, I was glad to get it. And I’m also glad that’ll be the last time I ever do. A sad indictment of culture given her popularity. American’s do love a conspiracy theory, don’t they.
I stopped paying attention to anything Candace said. She was always shouting about something. I thought I should probably see if she was worth the attention again. Thanks, this saved me the trouble of wondering what I was missing out on. She talks at the extremes about everything and then uses one example to prove her point. Everyone is left or right when most people are neither but live in the pragmatic centre. No expert on vaccines would debate her - why? She has no interest in the facts. Her comments about Tetanus for example - I was at the doctor recently and she noticed a cut on my finger. She said I better give you a Tetanus booster because we have one person from our area with Tetanus, and they almost always die. I have not had 16 Tetanus vaccines in my lifetime. She had no skin in the Covid game. No one was going to die on her watch because she talk and does not deal with patients. Her 20:20 hindsight is not even perfect. She's not a serious person. She's just lighting her farts for attention.
I’m listening thinking about Michael Shermer’s “Why People Believe Weird Things” and smart people are better at joining the wrong dots together. Incredibly frustrating confirmation bias. The big problem is millions of people are going to defer to her “authority”
Well that was interesting. She had me on the first 20 minutes...then it was crazy town. I think Josh did a good job pushing back, at the end basically saying, Could it be that you're a total hack, have no historical knowledge or background and you're swimming in a soup of ignorance and conspiracy? Answer: Yes. I think she's articulate, smart and clueless. (And captured in the worst way.)
She was a resident of Crazytown from minute 1
Lies, damn lies and statistics.
Yes, prevaccine there was only around 600 Tetanus cases a year, but there was a whopping 85% death rate. Scary. Vaccines have reduced cases to 41 and death rate to 10%. Kind of worth doing, yes?
Looking down the table most vaccine-preventable diseases have been eradicated to 0 or are down 99-100%. Also kind of worth doing.
See table in the middle of the page:
https://vaxopedia.org/2024/05/15/the-first-five-errors-in-the-a-shot-in-the-dark-series-by-candace-owens/
Isn't the underlying question of whether its is the role of government to force people, as though they are children, or it is their role to inform the populace and allow them to decide for themselves?
Yes, that always works out well, doesn’t it? The government has informed the populace thoroughly of the dangers of smoking and yet people still smoke themselves to an early grave.
Maybe we should just ‘suggest’ it is a good idea to: wear a helmet on a bike, wear a seatbelt, stop at traffic lights, don’t drive drunk. Let people decide for themselves.
I climb and I know most young people these days decide NOT to wear a helmet. One could see it as natural selection, I suppose.
I guarantee at the time when people watched their children die or be maimed with these horrible diseases they didn’t winge and moan about having to vaccinate their remaining children with the new miracle drugs from ‘the government’.
Now, from our place of relative comfort, created by vaccinations, why do we have to invent victimhood instead of just saying ‘thanks’.
And, no, I don’t think you can rely on the populace to make the decision for themselves, because, like children, they listen to the loudest voices, like Candace, and don’t do proper research.
The populace IS already well informed. We have the knowledge of the entire planet at our fingertips. Information is easy to find. You just need to curate it. I did some research yesterday and this was a pretty good summary of what I found:
https://vaxopedia.org/2018/07/29/anti-vaccine-points-refuted-a-thousand-times/
Thank you for sharing that document. It’s very thorough, and understandable for people without a science background.
This was an interesting listen. The most striking thing to me was that she several times raised issues with how people are being "fed a narrative" through public schooling and mainstream media, only to state at the end that it is her "baseline assumption that the bible got it right". Hard to beat religion when it comes to spoon feeding you a narrative.
This was a great case study in the Dunning-Kruger effect. Owens isn't clever enough to realise how clever she isn't.
I'd argue the opposite. Only a clever person can so totally deceive herself about so much.
Thanks for doing this. I disagree with others and thought the pushback was enough. And you let her have the rope to hang herself.
I heard a lot of secondary sources about how she was crazy, but after listening I can confirm it. Lots of "Beautiful Mind" vibes here; the conspiracies are everywhere.
Loved the jabs about humility. Thanks again
A bit disappointed in this, Josh. I expected much stronger pushback and debate from you, we don't simply need to know 'more of what she thinks'.
My assumption is that most of us listening to this podcast probably aren’t actually avid listeners to hers and, therefore, are precisely the crowd who could stand to hear what she has to say. I can only speak for myself but I avoid her content like the plague and, therefore, have heard very little “from the horse’s mouth” and more from the horse-haters’ mouths. This was a fascinating conversation and I thought Josh walked the line brilliantly during it.
I can only speak for myself, but I have heard plenty directly from Candace over the past several years. Not every person needs to be heard from endlessly. I think Sam Harris takes an intelligent stance on this.
I thought he pushed back fairly well, especially at the end
Surely she is beneath Josh. What is the point of this?
You’re listening to a show called Uncomfortable Conversations, that comment is beneath the show. She is a strong, opinionated voice with well thought out content worth listening too and considering. And some stuff that gives me the same feeling I get when Love Island comes on TV and I need to leave the room.
I wouldn't describe Candace Owens' opinions as "well thought out". She doesn't live in reality. Hardly going to be a productive conversation with someone that exists in such a epistemological parallel universe.
I couldn't agree more.
Her podcast is not that far behind Rogan in popularity
NO 😂😂
As a teacher, it will never cease to infuriate me how people with extreme views make broad claims about what is being taught in classrooms, usually with implicit (if not explicit) criticism of public education. They are invariably wrong. The things she was claiming are taught about “toxic masculinity” aren’t on any syllabus, and she had a very distorted understanding of what that term even meant.
Great interview, thanks. Just right for someone like me who has never heard her talk or read her views. She seems to be a typical Bible-based conspiratorial anomaly hunter, but with a more fluent patois than most. Also Josh, thanks for letting her finish her answers. In recent interviews you have been jumping in too soon. Busy life, kids, etc.? All is forgiven.
Above average levels of hysteria in the comments today.
I have to say, as much as i have little time for lightweight thinkers like Candace Owen, i dislike the ‘we need to stop platforming these people’ types so much more.
Nowhere near the craziest person Josh has ever interviewed.
I mean, bottom line, who TF cares if Bridgette Macron used to be a man?(she didn’t). That Obama may be bisexual? (reads as open minded and curious to me, but whatever).
What on earth does it matter, to anyone but themselves?
Why do you need to invent this shit to be so concerned about?
If bombs were falling on you or lions were attacking you, I don’t think you would give a moment’s thought to the gender/sexuality of anyone, and would consider people who were dwelling on such things as completely bonkers.
As someone who has only heard of her through third parties, I was glad to get it. And I’m also glad that’ll be the last time I ever do. A sad indictment of culture given her popularity. American’s do love a conspiracy theory, don’t they.
I stopped paying attention to anything Candace said. She was always shouting about something. I thought I should probably see if she was worth the attention again. Thanks, this saved me the trouble of wondering what I was missing out on. She talks at the extremes about everything and then uses one example to prove her point. Everyone is left or right when most people are neither but live in the pragmatic centre. No expert on vaccines would debate her - why? She has no interest in the facts. Her comments about Tetanus for example - I was at the doctor recently and she noticed a cut on my finger. She said I better give you a Tetanus booster because we have one person from our area with Tetanus, and they almost always die. I have not had 16 Tetanus vaccines in my lifetime. She had no skin in the Covid game. No one was going to die on her watch because she talk and does not deal with patients. Her 20:20 hindsight is not even perfect. She's not a serious person. She's just lighting her farts for attention.
Come on, the last minute she said that she's a Christian and there are dark forces at play. That should have been the starting point.