19 Comments
User's avatar
Matt's avatar

Just listened to the intro so far, but on artistic freedom: There is a big difference between government declining to fund a thing vs criminalizing that thing. Calling the former "Stalinist" trivializes the latter.

And from a libertarian or a realist perspective, if you take public funding you should expect public input, and perhaps a public veto.

Expand full comment
John Farrell's avatar

Yes, free speech is not necessarily consequence-free speech.

Expand full comment
Johan van de Beek's avatar

Yes excellent conversation

Expand full comment
Perry Brown's avatar

Your observation about "in the room privilege" and how little effort it takes for groups to be given a voice through media outlets...

It always makes me laugh when somebody from the "Australian taxpayers association" (or similar) is offering forth a judgement.

What is that? (nobody ever sent me a membership invitation).

I remember my Dad would joke about "some spokesman for the legless budgerigar society" being on the telly...

Expand full comment
David Aussie-Brit's avatar

I think there is a difference between being cancelled from all public spaces and being cancelled from representing your country with public money. Especially if the material could be interpreted in a way that could be illegal under Australian law (showing support for terrorist organisations). Not saying that's what he is doing ...but if it's so far into a grey zone that we need to have that discussion then maybe he's not the right person to represent the country internationally because like it or not - in such a important art exhibition- people will judge Australia as him.

If he has art work that could be determined as anti-gay...would we put that person to represent the country? Anti-asian or Chinese?

Free speech is not the same as being given public money and a platform to represent your country. We wouldn't send an Olympian to represent Australia if they were charged/suspected of domestic violence.

The problem in the end with all these debates is that the people who want to use hate speech abuse free speech rules whilst we have nice echo chamber discussions. When society is more and more being pushed into social media echo chambers and AI driven propaganda - having zero defense against bad actors promoting racial vilification.

I think we are also missing the court process and justice system. It is up to courts to decide, burden of evidence conditions etc - and that is a big hurdle that should also be considered as a balancing act against hate laws - without assuming every example will have people thrown in jail.

Expand full comment
Steven Work's avatar

The assumption that people are incapable of separating man's personal beliefs and older work and the nation is assuming bad-faith instincts and infantile intellect. I abject to this perspective as a reject that the entire Web and every book must be made child safe, or unoffensive for the weakest most pathological offense-takers and the Sad psychologically weakest 'triggerers'

So, David, you would assume that anyone accused of domestic violence is guilty, perhaps while knowing how mishandled such poof-less accusations from women are often lies and police and courts assume 'women-victims, men-abusers' even perhaps knowing that Parental fraud rates are 1/3 - that 1/3 of us are bastards because our lying lustfilled back-stabbing mothers couldn't keep her legs crossed for the pool-man? Or the a 3 year study of a police department that actively investigate every rape accusation filed found that more then 40% were materially proven to be false, and the actual false percentage likely into the 60-80%.

And so what if some of his work was anti-perversion as long as he did not display it at the official function - do you think everyone would soil themselves if they found his anti-perversion works on-line. How many people you would want to look well as the Nation are so retarded and twisted that the man's work have anti-perversion pieces, and if they are that mind-raped and though-broken why are they important enough to worry about?

What racial vilification besides my entire life of anti-white-males Hate Speech? If we all have to suffer and still suffer such constant unjust reputation destructions and vile hate from crib, what complaints of others that you and me and others refuse to listen too about other races as rare as they are, why listen to them when they and you been deft or supportive of anti-white-male hate speech?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

God Bless., Steve

Expand full comment
John Farrell's avatar

Great, wide-ranging, nuanced discussion with Alan Davison. I'm going to listen to it again tomorrow. 👏

Expand full comment
Linda's avatar

Josh, that terrorist being portrayed as art was as bad if not worse than past terrorists who are banned,even in the form of their symbol, in all civilised countries. A responsibly democratic government must have its limits to freedom of expression especially when public funding is involved

Expand full comment
Steven Work's avatar

The repercussionless liars and all profits & no risks that has spread since the earl 1970's when lying was shamed, it shamed your mother and father, shamed you in eye's of peers, and could lead to a punch or two from those harmed, if not significant to go to court to collect more.

I suggest each community have a justice committee that handled local offenses such as broken promises or gossip or lies that damaged someone or the community but our unJust courts would not handle or no specific law broken or damage not material or .. where 5-9 fathers and grandfathers that have raised successful children would hear cases.

Liars starting at 15 yo would be punished with at least public pain and shame, and more depending of the severity of the harm. Each would be brought to a public place and secured to an anchor and a collar attached to their neck and for the sentenced time be tasered, ideally so they scream and soil themselves. 14 yos would be required to see at least 3 of those punishments by school or parents who would explain why they are punished and how they can avoid such punishments.

For those liars that result in war, over 1 million dead, 2 trillion dollars, and so many military deaths and crippling's and families sufferings, WMD Iraq war for example, would be significant more Public Pain & Shame. Bush, Cheney, others locked in a Humvee and burned to death on streaming video, dying like so many men they sent on lies to fight israeli wars for them.

--

Since the 2009 mortgage-loan bank bailout I have been thinking about how or what should be a proportional response to that and similar 'white collar' crimes that kill many, drive families apart, impoverish, .. so many yet the criminals' profit from years of fraud in monthly money amounts most of us will never see in a lifetime.

.

People alive today suffering in poverty from the 2009 crimes. My oldest brother - now passed - worked hard, invested in homes he built as a contractor and speculator and 6 months before the crash I was visiting, and he told me that he and wife would retire within the year and move to Porta Reco to live modestly. ..

.

.. they lost nearly everything except the paid-for house the owned but too expensive to maintain and too large with all the children grown-up and gone. He would probably be alive today, if 2009 didn't nearly wipe them out. It broke his heart as he worked so much more in the previous 10 years.

.

No one responsible and grossly wealthy went to prison, and the gov. bailout went to them instead of homeowners to pay off their mortgage to bank. The banks got the money and then repossessed those homes, and re-sold them as pure profit.

Expand full comment
Steven Work's avatar

Women are different than men and when differences exist then one is better than others, and so women are better than men on avg for some things and men on avg are better than women in some things.

"Safe from hate?" feminization devouring mother infantizing people. How about the 50+ years of hate speech against white Chrisitan men, and when all that self-loathing and suicides are 'taken back' and Justice restored then perhaps when weak fatherless raised adult children are triggered or crying, we may not laugh and say, "grow a pair to testicles and get a grip!"

The focus on Anti-Jew, Anti-Muslim, Anti-Black, .. 'hate speech' but no mention of the 50+ past years and continuing Hate-Speech and Hate-Media and Hate-Education and Hate-History retelling and Hate-employment ('hire no white men' 'Fire more white men') NAFTA destruction of MiddleClass and employment for Blue-collar white Christian raised men, wage suppression, under reporting of inflation by 4-6%, hyper-empower women to attack and destroy fatherhood, families, childhood, manhood, them-selves from within our family and HR dept.s and management, and .. all preventing stable white Christian raised families with even the 2.4 replacement children - systematic genocide of Western white race, replacement and culture genocide by mass immigration of military aged men that hate our culture and refuse to join ours?

.. what is all the whining vomit concern for hurtie-feelies because someone said something mean online or said in public or private? WTF is 'bad though speech' when generations of white Chrisitan genocide has brought white race down to 9% world population and stolen our culture and out homelands. Multiculture meaning genocide all white race, pour in the 3rd world populations from cultures far below Western culture with Shit-hole cultures and peoples?

I piss on your hate speech laws while white Chirstian genocide is ignored. Would consider nuke wars and 3+ billions more dead then all those babies tortured to death unborn silently screaming world-wide in my lifetime, nuke fire from sky with survivors free from all but the local gov.s created and directed by them, without Satan preventing the Just public hanging of Abortionists, teachers, law-makers, mayors, judges, .., 3rd time false-witnessers, etc.

--

So, genocidal supporting Zionists' criticism somehow cannot state that they love drinking the blood of Gaza children? Because that somehow is antisemitic, even if many genocidal supporting Zionists are Christians?

.. seems like these two are conflating the statement against israeli and Zionists that are 16 moths of open televised war crime and mass murder and snipers shooting children in the head and burning alive (on video) hospital patients .. that that is all somehow antisemitism?

Well, the worst generator of antisemitism is twisted genociding Zionist Supremacist and supporting purposeful pretend confusion between these two bad words, when genocidal supporting Zionists in israeli or anywhere worldwide; Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindi, .. really should be called 'late for graves' in defense of us all. Many Nazis hanged for a lot less than what many Zionists have done. .. but perhaps we all can see now they are and have been for 75+ years of terrorism and mass killings, all above the law.

For those vile walking machine from hell mass murdering shells of humans that are above the law then Justice is simple, Death Death Death. Not only Genocidal Zionists but anyone that does not Fear God and are unwise.

Australia should have regreted giving up their guns during the brutal police treatment for peaceful covid fascist tyrannical policies protests, now they are going to be compelled to suck Zionist strap-ons, and where does it end, a boot stomping their heads forever?

Australia's spy institutions has been infiltrated by Zionists, although it's been long controlled by demonic possessed peoples, it now openly shows Satan as leader!

So, if no one found to have committed those crimes against Jewish institutions then how are we not to think that it might be Jews doing those crimes - as we have seen often in the USA? What next, the ADL antisemitism instances fraud list?

A bus filled with explosives like Zionists set-up and found in israel? With the cartoon TNT within sight of passer-bys and list of Jewish targets on top of TNT-labeled box, by chance? Good police work!

When will it be against the law to research, ask, debate, argue, .. the Zionist narrative of WWII Nazi Jewish activity in the Nazi-German re-education camps 'truth', illegal to question or doubt the 6 millions of mostly never lived undead European Jews? Why not - many European nations already protect a 'truth' with suppression and laws? With fines, extradition, courts, prison, perhaps torture and death (if prison-guards trained by israeli trainers, as so many police departments and special torturers in USA military are.)

Could we imagine an anti-Jewish gov that bans Star or David or other Jewish symbols, how about anti-Islam banning Muslim symbols .. what about anti-Chrisitan? Don't need to mention that because this Satanic Zionists' gov and Satanic Zionists' controlled West and Arab rulers already banned Christian symbols - replaced with Pride flags and marches where mostly naked men with strap-ons act-out perversions and homosexual acts in all our faces and our children's view .. what more offensive symbols will be sown us tomorrow - young women with breasts mutilated? Genocide of Gazans?

Expand full comment
Steven Work's avatar

Hezbollah leader evolved to reject antisemitism and became anti-Zionist anti-israel focused. His speeches were a breath of fresh air when corp-media vomits lies.

Explain building 7 collapse, as if professional demolition team destroyed it, did it collapse because it could not face the future without the twin towers, and why was a media news caster able to report building 7 collapse before it happened? Do that before any attack on people about the 9-11 NYC contrived 'terrorist' False Flag event.

Anyone that would interfere with all our access and all the future's access to anything someone else makes public for us a read, see, hear, and think about - to interfere with countless people's Freedom-to-Hear must be considered a mind-raping psychotic driven danger to all we love as they believe they are our Masters and would turn us into a programmed golem-tool of evil for their bidding, abuse, and destruction.

.. I am an extremist about legal speech and speech not intended to damage or make listening to others speech difficult and think that increasing punishment were the 3rd time is public hanging is Just for such slimy mind-raping soul-crippling brain-washing dangerous psychotics that have had 2 or more warnings to repent.

Expand full comment
Steven Work's avatar

Maybe I missed something in the clip of the two nurses talking to an israeli, but I heard anti-Zionism anti-israeli from the nurse Palestinians or supporters. Not antisemitism. Many people think that israeli 75+ years of terrorism and mass murder and these 16 months of genocide has been a history and present that Cries to God to remove nationhood from Zionist Supremist, and if they are referring to his and many israelis deaths if Iran use missiles, then they are stating the likely truth.

For perspective;

If someone drove me and my family from my house and land and decided to form a new nation that removed my rights and locked me in an open air prison where new military weapons were tested and videos of those I care about or identify with are videoed dying horribly to sell those weapons and to reduce the captured tormented and tortured population, etc. .. then some elite person living off our land, our blood, our tortured people and the tax money of some enslaved other nation and that recent polls indicate 90% of the citizens of that genocidal nation support their actions of war-crimes and 16 months of mass killings so many people ..

.. I might suggest that such life-soul-blood sucking demonic-controlled people could all be tied to a post that thanked, again, and again with ice-picks to their bodies and heads.

What kind of mind-raped castrated belly-crawling Zionist-strap-on licker would not think and feel this general way? You?

But since it seems like his insane Zionist Supremacists leaders and gov are likely to attack Iran that their thousands of missiles might be sent to level israel. Then a warning of the type that many or most israelis will die soon seems like a relevant statement holding high probability of truth.

Expand full comment
Hashim Ahmad's avatar

We need more conversations like this happening in streets.

Expand full comment
JH's avatar
Mar 9Edited

Commenting on the later part of the conversation I did hear from a family member yesterday who has just started a Juris Doctor at Macquarie uni. They said that they were required to fill out a form indicating whether they were indigenous or a “settler” or “colonist” not sure of the exact wording but if true it seems quite divisive and would indicate that some of the excesses discussed in the pod are still very much happening in Australian universities.

Expand full comment
David Barda's avatar

I abhor cancel culture but not sure what we can do about it in this era of social media assasinations. But I can’t help think that what goes around come around for Sabsabi when he was just last year calling for the exclusion of Israeli artists from the Venice Biennale .

Expand full comment
Steven Work's avatar

"I abhor cancel culture but not sure what we can do about it .."

We need to install a sanctified version of the industrialization of the Witch-Whisper-Web that slimy lying dishonorable mean girls from 14-old_age_death and fatherless dog-males use to secretly damaged or destroyed reputations with.

How? Well, a Public Database that has a entry for everyone 15 and older, every organization, corporation, institution, etc. Where a person harmed by another person or institution may file a Record with the details and automatic link back to the accuser and each new record or change-addition to accused Record causes an alert so they may respond to the accusations.

Anyone lying or breaks a promise or caught gossiping or undermining reputation in the typical slimy vile Vag-Sickness way, or similar, may have a Record filed against them to warn everyone that may ever interact with them.

Every sick vile person that acts to cancel may generate a Record in the Public Database so anyone hiring or willingly supports those people can be known to have satanic goals and methods.

Any better ideas?

Expand full comment
Joan Breibart's avatar

"Artists" today are just like every other money grubbing person: they do anything to get attention. the real is issue si tha t we have 8Billion bodies and tha tis about 2 billion too many and w all are panicked that we have no opportunity and now with AI this is even worse. People do anything for attention. Artists are wrestling with how to make a living dn tha means in our Social media world getting ATTENTIONN in nay way they can.

Expand full comment
Alejandro Guerrero's avatar

Thank you

Expand full comment
Zac Gross's avatar

Defending the Abu Graib torturers?? Don’t keep your mind so open that your brain falls out mate.

Expand full comment