Just listened to the intro so far, but on artistic freedom: There is a big difference between government declining to fund a thing vs criminalizing that thing. Calling the former "Stalinist" trivializes the latter.
And from a libertarian or a realist perspective, if you take public funding you should expect public input, and perhaps a public veto.
I think there is a difference between being cancelled from all public spaces and being cancelled from representing your country with public money. Especially if the material could be interpreted in a way that could be illegal under Australian law (showing support for terrorist organisations). Not saying that's what he is doing ...but if it's so far into a grey zone that we need to have that discussion then maybe he's not the right person to represent the country internationally because like it or not - in such a important art exhibition- people will judge Australia as him.
If he has art work that could be determined as anti-gay...would we put that person to represent the country? Anti-asian or Chinese?
Free speech is not the same as being given public money and a platform to represent your country. We wouldn't send an Olympian to represent Australia if they were charged/suspected of domestic violence.
The problem in the end with all these debates is that the people who want to use hate speech abuse free speech rules whilst we have nice echo chamber discussions. When society is more and more being pushed into social media echo chambers and AI driven propaganda - having zero defense against bad actors promoting racial vilification.
I think we are also missing the court process and justice system. It is up to courts to decide, burden of evidence conditions etc - and that is a big hurdle that should also be considered as a balancing act against hate laws - without assuming every example will have people thrown in jail.
I abhor cancel culture but not sure what we can do about it in this era of social media assasinations. But I can’t help think that what goes around come around for Sabsabi when he was just last year calling for the exclusion of Israeli artists from the Venice Biennale .
"Artists" today are just like every other money grubbing person: they do anything to get attention. the real is issue si tha t we have 8Billion bodies and tha tis about 2 billion too many and w all are panicked that we have no opportunity and now with AI this is even worse. People do anything for attention. Artists are wrestling with how to make a living dn tha means in our Social media world getting ATTENTIONN in nay way they can.
Just listened to the intro so far, but on artistic freedom: There is a big difference between government declining to fund a thing vs criminalizing that thing. Calling the former "Stalinist" trivializes the latter.
And from a libertarian or a realist perspective, if you take public funding you should expect public input, and perhaps a public veto.
Yes, free speech is not necessarily consequence-free speech.
Yes excellent conversation
I think there is a difference between being cancelled from all public spaces and being cancelled from representing your country with public money. Especially if the material could be interpreted in a way that could be illegal under Australian law (showing support for terrorist organisations). Not saying that's what he is doing ...but if it's so far into a grey zone that we need to have that discussion then maybe he's not the right person to represent the country internationally because like it or not - in such a important art exhibition- people will judge Australia as him.
If he has art work that could be determined as anti-gay...would we put that person to represent the country? Anti-asian or Chinese?
Free speech is not the same as being given public money and a platform to represent your country. We wouldn't send an Olympian to represent Australia if they were charged/suspected of domestic violence.
The problem in the end with all these debates is that the people who want to use hate speech abuse free speech rules whilst we have nice echo chamber discussions. When society is more and more being pushed into social media echo chambers and AI driven propaganda - having zero defense against bad actors promoting racial vilification.
I think we are also missing the court process and justice system. It is up to courts to decide, burden of evidence conditions etc - and that is a big hurdle that should also be considered as a balancing act against hate laws - without assuming every example will have people thrown in jail.
I abhor cancel culture but not sure what we can do about it in this era of social media assasinations. But I can’t help think that what goes around come around for Sabsabi when he was just last year calling for the exclusion of Israeli artists from the Venice Biennale .
"Artists" today are just like every other money grubbing person: they do anything to get attention. the real is issue si tha t we have 8Billion bodies and tha tis about 2 billion too many and w all are panicked that we have no opportunity and now with AI this is even worse. People do anything for attention. Artists are wrestling with how to make a living dn tha means in our Social media world getting ATTENTIONN in nay way they can.
Great, wide-ranging, nuanced discussion with Alan Davison. I'm going to listen to it again tomorrow. 👏
Thank you
Defending the Abu Graib torturers?? Don’t keep your mind so open that your brain falls out mate.